ammar86 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 assalammualaikum... aku user baru kat sini...trasa bes lak bila tengok korang berbincang ttg komputer ni..masalah aku, com aku nie baru jer format,.. tapi apsal slow ar??...bila open windows pon slow, nak shut down pun slow...tak tau nape... sape² leh tolong??...lg satu, com aku nie kena virus... tp nape norton takleh cleankan virus 2 ar??kkdag 2 bila scan kata xde virus...nie yg sakit ati nie... sape2 leh tolong?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FryShadow 90 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 selamat datang ke putera.com, kami menyediakan servis 24jam /well pc ko baru format ekk?hmm apa kata ko bagi spesikasi komputer ko dulu cth processor ?mobo?RAM?graphic card? dan lain../so dari list ko tue kitaorg leh trace masalah ko tue..kena virus?norton ta detect?apa kata ko try anti virus lain..ako sarankan AVG Free edition,Kaspersky ke,Panda ke..orait!/masalah pc slow biasanya disebabkan oleh RAM yg sedikit, bila RAM sikit so dia takleh nk load byk dlm tue contoh bila ko nak open windows../selain tue processor pon memainkan peranan gak dlm menyumbang kelembapan system ko... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
civ3 9 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 maybe ada bad sector..so try scan HDD tu...mana tau ada back sector ke....kalau ada bad sector try buat Low Level Format (LLF)..... pastu maybe ada background process..so try pegi run pastu type msconfig..pastu pilih startup...pastu uncheckkan mana² process yang tidak diingini....maybe virus? aku cadangkan kau guna AVG antivirus atau pun AVAST antivirus....mcafee pun boleh jugak....spyware maybe? so try scan guna mana² antispyware k? chow lu.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balthazor 1 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 PERGI RUN>MSCONFIG>STARTUP...................LEPAS TU BAGITAU AKU APA YAANG ADA KAT SITU..................YANG KAU PAKAI NORTON ANTIVIRUS KENAPA?..............ADA BANYAK ANTIVIRUS LAIN MACAM ANTIVIR...KAPERSKY.......AVG....F-SECURE DAN LAIN-LAIN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonikCapGajah2013 175 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) Ko senaraikan dulu spec pc ko.CPUMOBORAMHDGCKo guna windows ape? Tentang antivirus, aku syorkan guna AVG Free Edition, update hari2ok ... world.. Edited June 22, 2005 by OngBok Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
electroboy 3 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 go for OS dulu1. scan guna antispyware, leh dpt free di http://www.microsoft.com/2. update antivirus dan scan.....3. guna hijackthis, scan dan post report ke forum ni...biar kitorang tgk sapa yg hijack pc ko.Download hijackthis: http://www.majorgeeks.com/download3155.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-Fu 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 first download spybot. http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.htmldownload, UPDATE, pastu scan. fix, pastu restart. pastu scan balik, takut2 ade problem balik. kalau problem tu asyik kluar balik, pegi terus ke step hijackthis kat bawah.lepas dah update semua, bukak balik spybot. pegi menu mode>advanced mode. kat menu kiri, pegi tools. checkkan semua, so semua setting boleh kite set.then kat menu kiri, pegi spybot>immunize. klik immunize, dan klik enable permanent blocking of bad addresses... dan block all pages silently.pastu gi Tools>IE Tweaks. lock hosts file. kalo nak lock IE start page pon elok gak.pastu gi Tools>Hosts file. add spybot hosts file.pastu gi Tools>Resident. Checkkan option SDHelper.=========pegi download hijackthis. http://216.180.233.162/~merijn/files/HijackThis.execreate new folder bernama hijackthis dan download ke folder tuh.software ni bergune untuk pakar pc check virus ke, spyware ke dalam pc ko. cara dia?lepas download, ko run program tu. pastu scan, pastu save log. save log ke desktop, pastu bukak log gune notepad kalo log tu tak di-auto-bukak lepas ko save. copy dan paste SEMUA isi kandungan log tu ke sini.==============then kene set antivirus supaya dia update HARI HARI. ako gune antivirus AVG, yang ni free. takyah bayar nye.http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.phpFREE==================tutup SEMUA window, dan IE. bukak SATU SAHAJA Internet Explorer. Pastu pegi Tools>Windows Update. Kalau tak pernah buat windows update, nanti die akan suruh install something dari Microsoft. pilih Yes, dan mungkin kene restart pastu. Kalau kene restart, just ulang. Nanti akan keluar 2 option - pilih Custom Install. Pastu jangan pilih Service Pack 2, pilih Review Other Updates. Pastu pilih je semua kalau nak senang, dan install. Kalau ada ape2 kotak keluar pilih yes. Restart. Pastu ulang balik kalo nak install Service Pack 2.=====================kalo nak firewall, ako suggest kerio. oran lain suggest zonealarm, tapi kerio gune sikit je RAM. ako personally tak gune pasal modem ako ade firewall. tapi kalo nak gak, download la. http://www.kerio.com/kpf_download.htmlFREE========================kalo nak software buang file2 yang takde gune kat pc, macam temporary file, gune ccleaner.http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.aspdownload, install, dan bukak ccleaner. analyze, pastu run cleaner. restart pc.FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonikCapGajah2013 175 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 com aku nie baru jer format,.. tapi apsal slow ar??...Takkan baru format terus kena spyware, virus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzulcarnine 2 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 kalo baru lepas format masih jugak slow dari sepatutnya, ada kemungkinan hdd tu dah nak kong. tu antara petanda dia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
civ3 9 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 bad sector dah check? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FryShadow 90 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 spesifikasi pc ?dah settle ke lom? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairolrizal 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 banyak aku dapat software ari nie....terima kasih kengkawan........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
locco 5 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 aku rekemen etrust ezantivirus by CA (sponsor mclaren f1 kan ) pc aku x penah kene virus sejak mula pakai thn 2000...pc tak jd lembab mcm norton syok tgk dia tangkap virus etc mase surf internet..huhu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
locco 5 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) ooo...komputer ko slow wlpn baru format ek...aku rase hdd ko prob la...check bad sector pd hdd gune software by manufacturer hdd ko...seagate, maxtor etc ader software masing2 utk check problem product diorg Edited June 22, 2005 by locco Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1naryc0de 1 Report post Posted June 22, 2005 Untuk check dan betulkan bad sector boleh try guna hdd regenerator.. Tapi yang nie software berbayar.. Ape software nie boleh buat?? Dia cari dan betulkan sector harddisk.. Kalo physical damage memang tak leh betullah.. Tapi kalo magnetik pada surface hd tue bermasalah dia boleh betulkan..OS/file system independent cuma installer dia untuk windows.. Maknanye tak kisah apa file system yang ada kat harddisk tue (fat, fat32, ntfs, ext3, reiserfs, tak ada format ape2) dia tetap boleh scan dan fix.. Siap tool untuk buat bootable disk untuk floppy dan cdrom..Tak perlu format(data tak hilang).. Tapi seperti biasa lebih baik buat backup dulu..Heheh.. macam promoter lak.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuri 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2005 Hoh...aku try ikut steps yg C-Fu cakap tuh..dari Norton aku tuko ke AVG free edition.. install spyboot search and destroy..hijack this dgn Ccleaner tuh ...hermm...perfomance jadi makin okeh...available physical memory pon bertambah (as expected bila tuka antivirus)...erm...ni file log hijack this...Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1Scan saved at 11:22:30 AM, on 6/23/2005Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP2 (6.00.2900.2180)Running processes:C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exeC:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exeC:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXEC:\WINDOWS\Mixer.exeC:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgcc.exeC:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgemc.exeC:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exeC:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgamsvr.exeC:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgupsvc.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\wscntfy.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\wuauclt.exeG:\Installer\hijack this\HijackThis.exeR1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Connection Wizard,ShellNext = http://www.nero.com/us/nero6_upgrade.htmlO2 - BHO: AcroIEHlprObj Class - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 7.0\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dllO2 - BHO: (no name) - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dllO2 - BHO: (no name) - {5C8B2A36-3DB1-42A4-A3CB-D426709BBFEB} - (no file)O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [C-Media Mixer] Mixer.exe /startupO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgcc.exe /STARTUPO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_EMC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgemc.exeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSConfig] C:\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\Binaries\MSConfig.exe /autoO4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MSMSGS] "C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe" /backgroundO8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLLO9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exeO9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exeO16 - DPF: {6414512B-B978-451D-A0D8-FCFDF33E833C} (WUWebControl Class) - http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/v5co...b?1118173460962O23 - Service: AVG7 Alert Manager Server (Avg7Alrt) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgamsvr.exeO23 - Service: AVG7 Update Service (Avg7UpdSvc) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgupsvc.exe...aku tak reti nak baca benda alah ni...tolong tgk² ek!!(tompang thread ek!! ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Impreza_2004 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2005 cuba ko try 1. TuneUp Utilities 20032. AntiVir Personal Edition (Free EditioN)..www.hbedv.com3. Spyware Doctor 3.2 ....www.download.com4. Spy Sweeper 3.5...www.download.com5. Counterspy 1.0...www.download.com..selamat mencuba... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
civ3 9 Report post Posted June 23, 2005 kuri....kau try fix mende ni jea:O2 - BHO: (no name) - {5C8B2A36-3DB1-42A4-A3CB-D426709BBFEB} - (no file) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Impreza_2004 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2005 maybe ada bad sector..so try scan HDD tu...mana tau ada back sector ke....kalau ada bad sector try buat Low Level Format (LLF)..... pastu maybe ada background process..so try pegi run pastu type msconfig..pastu pilih startup...pastu uncheckkan mana² process yang tidak diingini....maybe virus? aku cadangkan kau guna AVG antivirus atau pun AVAST antivirus....mcafee pun boleh jugak....spyware maybe? so try scan guna mana² antispyware k? chow lu....←kalo de bad sector cuba try hard mechanic or hdd regenerator 1.41..mungkin dapat selesaikan..selamat mencuba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1naryc0de 1 Report post Posted June 25, 2005 Sejak menggunakan hdd regenerator pc saya kembali stabil walaupun semasa scan & fix tue dia tak kata ada bad sector Dan yang paling menggembirakan tiada kehilangan data!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Impreza_2004 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2005 Untuk check dan betulkan bad sector boleh try guna hdd regenerator.. Tapi yang nie software berbayar.. Ape software nie boleh buat?? Dia cari dan betulkan sector harddisk.. Kalo physical damage memang tak leh betullah.. Tapi kalo magnetik pada surface hd tue bermasalah dia boleh betulkan..OS/file system independent cuma installer dia untuk windows.. Maknanye tak kisah apa file system yang ada kat harddisk tue (fat, fat32, ntfs, ext3, reiserfs, tak ada format ape2) dia tetap boleh scan dan fix.. Siap tool untuk buat bootable disk untuk floppy dan cdrom..Tak perlu format(data tak hilang).. Tapi seperti biasa lebih baik buat backup dulu..Heheh.. macam promoter lak.. ←sila dapatkan keygen atau [biskut tawar] untuk hdd regenerator di laman laman web [biskut tawar] tersebut ngan cara cari gi google.com..selamat mencuba.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ammar86 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2005 selamat datang ke putera.com, kami menyediakan servis 24jam /well pc ko baru format ekk?hmm apa kata ko bagi spesikasi komputer ko dulu cth processor ?mobo?RAM?graphic card? dan lain../so dari list ko tue kitaorg leh trace masalah ko tue..kena virus?norton ta detect?apa kata ko try anti virus lain..ako sarankan AVG Free edition,Kaspersky ke,Panda ke..orait!/masalah pc slow biasanya disebabkan oleh RAM yg sedikit, bila RAM sikit so dia takleh nk load byk dlm tue contoh bila ko nak open windows../selain tue processor pon memainkan peranan gak dlm menyumbang kelembapan system ko...←ooo...com aku jenis intel celeron... 128.0MB RAM..guna winme... btolke system takleh nak support program nie...kom aku msk virus lama dah..aku nk buang takleh ar...asyik quarantine jer... takleh ke nak clean trus.. aku gna norton sebab org cakap av nie bagus tu yg aku gna 2.. avg pro ok tak??nak try ar.. kat mana leh dpt??kaspersky?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ammar86 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2005 PERGI RUN>MSCONFIG>STARTUP...................LEPAS TU BAGITAU AKU APA YAANG ADA KAT SITU..................YANG KAU PAKAI NORTON ANTIVIRUS KENAPA?..............ADA BANYAK ANTIVIRUS LAIN MACAM ANTIVIR...KAPERSKY.......AVG....F-SECURE DAN LAIN-LAIN←kat situ ader..Spyware doctorMozilla quick launchScanregistryTaskMonitorPchealthSystemTrayEssSpkPhoneLoadPowerProfileCcAppCcRegVfyLoadPowerProfileSchedulingAgent*statemgrccEvtMgrScriptBlockingMicrosoft Office StartupAdobe Gamma LoaderRun=byk giler...sbb 2 lambat ke???norton org ckp power... 2 yg aku gna 2... harap korang leh tolong aku settelkan.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ammar86 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2005 pegi download hijackthis. http://216.180.233.162/~merijn/files/HijackThis.execreate new folder bernama hijackthis dan download ke folder tuh.software ni bergune untuk pakar pc check virus ke, spyware ke dalam pc ko. cara dia?lepas download, ko run program tu. pastu scan, pastu save log. save log ke desktop, pastu bukak log gune notepad kalo log tu tak di-auto-bukak lepas ko save. copy dan paste SEMUA isi kandungan log tu ke sini.==============←Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1Scan saved at 1:56:21 AM, on 6/28/2005Platform: Windows ME (Win9x 4.90.3000)MSIE: Internet Explorer v5.50 (5.50.4134.0100)Running processes:C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.DLLC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSGSRV32.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\mmtask.tskC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MPREXE.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSTASK.EXEC:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\SYMANTEC SHARED\CCEVTMGR.EXEC:\WINDOWS\EXPLORER.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\RESTORE\STMGR.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\CMMPU.EXEC:\WINDOWS\TASKMON.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SYSTRAY.EXEC:\WINDOWS\ESSCW10.EXEC:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\SYMANTEC SHARED\CCAPP.EXEC:\PROGRAM FILES\SPYWARE DOCTOR\SWDOCTOR.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\TAPISRV.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SPOOL32.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\DDHELP.EXEC:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WBEM\WINMGMT.EXEC:\PROGRAM FILES\WINZIP\WZQKPICK.EXEC:\UNZIPPED\HIJACKTHIS\HIJACKTHIS.EXER0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.yahoo.com/R3 - Default URLSearchHook is missingF1 - win.ini: run=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\cmmpu.exeN3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.search.defaultengine", "engine://C%3A%5CPROGRAM%20FILES%5CNETSCAPE%5CNETSCAPE%5Csearchplugins%5CSBWeb_01.src"); (C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\k8pczpt9.slt\prefs.js)O2 - BHO: AcroIEHlprObj Class - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\PROGRAM FILES\ADOBE\ACROBAT 6.0\READER\ACTIVEX\ACROIEHELPER.DLLO2 - BHO: PCTools Browser Monitor - {B56A7D7D-6927-48C8-A975-17DF180C71AC} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~1\TOOLS\IESDPB.DLLO2 - BHO: PCTools Site Guard - {5C8B2A36-3DB1-42A4-A3CB-D426709BBFEB} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~1\TOOLS\IESDSG.DLLO2 - BHO: NAV Helper - {BDF3E430-B101-42AD-A544-FADC6B084872} - C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dllO3 - Toolbar: @msdxmLC.dll,-1@1033,&Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSDXM.OCXO3 - Toolbar: Norton AntiVirus - {42CDD1BF-3FFB-4238-8AD1-7859DF00B1D6} - C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dllO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [scanRegistry] C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorunO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TaskMonitor] C:\WINDOWS\taskmon.exeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PCHealth] C:\WINDOWS\PCHealth\Support\PCHSchd.exe -sO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [systemTray] SysTray.ExeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [EssSpkPhone] esscw10.exeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrSchemeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccApp] C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccRegVfy] C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccRegVfy.exeO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSConfigReminder] C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSCONFIG.exe /reminderO4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrSchemeO4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [schedulingAgent] mstask.exeO4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [*StateMgr] C:\WINDOWS\System\Restore\StateMgr.exeO4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [ccEvtMgr] C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccEvtMgr.exeO4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [scriptBlocking] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\Script Blocking\SBServ.exe" -regO4 - HKCU\..\Run: [spyware Doctor] "C:\PROGRAM FILES\SPYWARE DOCTOR\SWDOCTOR.EXE" /QO4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Mozilla Quick Launch] "C:\PROGRA~1\NETSCAPE\NETSCAPE\NETSCP.EXE" -aimO4 - Startup: Microsoft Office.lnk = C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\OSA9.EXEO4 - Startup: Adobe Gamma Loader.lnk = C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration\Adobe Gamma Loader.exeO4 - Startup: WinZip Quick Pick.lnk = C:\Program Files\WinZip\WZQKPICK.EXEO9 - Extra button: Related - {c95fe080-8f5d-11d2-a20b-00aa003c157a} - C:\WINDOWS\web\related.htmO9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Show &Related Links - {c95fe080-8f5d-11d2-a20b-00aa003c157a} - C:\WINDOWS\web\related.htmO9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\PROGRA~1\MESSEN~1\MSMSGS.EXEO9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: MSN Messenger Service - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\PROGRA~1\MESSEN~1\MSMSGS.EXEO9 - Extra button: Spyware Doctor - {2D663D1A-8670-49D9-A1A5-4C56B4E14E84} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~1\TOOLS\IESDPB.DLLO16 - DPF: {88D758A3-D33B-45FD-91E3-67749B4057FA} (Sinstaller Class) - http://dm.screensavers.com/dm/installers/si/1/sinstaller.cabO18 - Filter: text/html - (no CLSID) - (no file)hmmmnnn.....nak buat camna nie??kt mana ada prob?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
civ3 9 Report post Posted June 28, 2005 buang mende alah nie:R3 - Default URLSearchHook is missingO16 - DPF: {88D758A3-D33B-45FD-91E3-67749B4057FA} (Sinstaller Class) - http://dm.screensavers.com/dm/installers/si/1/sinstaller.cabO18 - Filter: text/html - (no CLSID) - (no file) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites